These guys are like the Motorhead black metal. They churn out album that take little risk, but pleases their fan base because it is one hundred percent what they do. They might not not be the caliber of songwriters Motorhead was, due to the fact the sheer speed and fury they hit their instruments with does not lend it self to things like hooks or melody. Instead you get full throttle with more of a punk feel at times. The problem being is it all begins to sound the same. What worked when the title track that opens the album hits your fresh ears, is different from how that exact same sound it going to work after they try to hit your now ringing ears with that for a second, is you are a little numbed out and it all sounds the same.
There is more underlying nuance to "Blood of the Funeral" which is impressive as they are playing even faster here. The riffs stand out a little more. The vocals snarl with the same rasp in all the songs so that is not a factor listening to variation. The only time this changes it on moments like the intro to ' Shovel Beats Scepter " and the vocals stand alone, to allow for more room to breath and place of lower tone to be heard without the buzz of guitars that would otherwise drown it out. Without the blasting the demonic exclamations are more effective, but they still drone on from one place. The hyper blast of "Charlatan" marks the turn the album makes into blur of hyper blasting.
This is my second listen through this album. Upon my first the second half of the album all sounded the same to me. A closer listen though headphones I can hear the difference in the drumming the newest member Simon Schilling brings to the table with his playing. Morgan is the only original member, which as the guitarist it brings a uniformity to the riffing in that it carries the bands personality , however on a song like "Coffin Carol' it's not enough to bring a dramatic shift to the dynamics, and the only difference is the drumming is faster and more intense to this song. In the last minute there is a little more ebb and flow, but it feels like too little too late.
"Marching Bones" starts with the plod of the bas to give some space between this and previous song before they blasts off again. There is more crust and punk flavor to the feral snarl this song is possessed by. There is an ambient intro to "Year of the Maggot" , if not for this the blasting is almost seamless in the song's explosive nature, so it's easy to hear how this might make everything sound the same, though a second listen reveals a punchier thrash feel. "Red Tree of Blood" keeps the blasties even nastier. The vocals have a more vomitted cadence to them. "As We Are" slows things down to more of a "Hell's Bells" type feel in how the chords are picked out. You are waiting for the other boot to drop as if feels far too purposeful for this band that has blasted the gay Jesus out of you. This also makes it perhaps the album's best song. I will give this album an 8, which is better than most of the blasty black metal out there, as they do care about the songs and try to shift things enough, but far from their best album, if you jsut like their raw blasting side then this exercise in anger might appeal to you more.
Any time I say this album really surprised me then spoiler alert that mean I like what I am hearing. I have learned to go into most albums with low expectations to spare me from disappointment. I review so many albums , just think how depressed I would be if I went into every album hoping it was going to be the best thing ever. These guys used to have a more punk slant to their sound , not that has gone more in a thrash direction. The thing that is great about this band however is that they are darker than your average thrash band. It is not until the third song that I hear something that is dark enough to have a goth influence, most of the time they are full chug ahead.
They really have this thrash sound dialed in. The guitar sound is very epic and powerful. The vocals help set them apart , they are exclaimed in a forceful and dramatic fashion. Sometimes he actually sings. They vocals are at least double tracked some times there are more layers. "Funeral Pyre" has a more deliberate pulse that proves to be just as compelling. The chant of the vocals is pretty catchy and the guitars work well with it. The vocals are a little more throaty on "Speak Through Fire". They speed up on the chorus , but for a thrash band they do not prioritize speed. The guitars get more melodic and joined by keyboard on " Serpents Hall" . It moves a slower mid tempo giving it a darker feel.
I can traces of both Death in June and the Doors on " Into the Woods". It is the first more rock roll song on here/. I am not sure I would be quick to claim they are a goth band. When they charge back into the straight forward thrash on the song after this it feels a little like a cop out. I do not think it is as catchy as earlier in the album when they did this sort of thing. "Conqueror's Flame" . It is more like an outro than a song as it doesn't build up until midway into the song. Good sounds but not the best song. I will give this album a 9.5, it borders both black metal and thrash due to how dark it is. Practice makes perfect as the 4th time was the charm for them to hit a bulls-eye. Being released on Regain Records.
The furious gallop of "Were-wolf" has a punk edge to it that reminds me of Motorhead. This is increased when the kids start chanting were-wolf. There is a darker throb to "June 44". So i have given this album several listens before writing about it, during this time it has given me time to compare the first time I heard thee songs to how they feel with repeat listens, this is where I notice some songs rather than grow me , grew annoying due to the uniform nature of the blast beats. This song is where I first notice it. "Equestrian Bloodlust" rages at such a similar speed the quick pauses are the only thing that really sets this song apart. Many of these songs run together even on something like " Tiger I" where they slow into a more deliberate pulse.
They waste little time speeding back up on "Narva". This album is not huge on dynamics, but it's an exercise in the band doing what they do well. In some ways it feels like this album is only a justification to go on tour. I get that we are 14 albums in with these guys so the element of surprise is non-existent. This begins to become and album that if I look away from iTunes, it all runs together and next thing I now we are three songs deeper. The unrelenting tempo is the main culprit here. "Last Fallen" feels marginally more intentional and less like a blurry temper tantrum. The title track doesn't do much to set itself apart but rages in the same fashion as the rest of this speed fest.
"The Devil's Song" has the same buzz of tremolo picked guitar running through it. At this point Marduk is beginning to feel like the AC/DC of black metal. The vocals sometimes go from this screamed mid range rasp to more of a shouted declaration. The blast beats have already numbed you out at this point and the guitar melodies are buried in the rushed anger coursing through these songs."Silent Night" is their last chance to do something different though at this point it would not even matter. They do slow down and churn out something that is darker and posses more melody, which is frustrating because why did we just get hit with that blur of songs that all sounded the same? I'll give this album a 7. CENTURY Media is releasing this, if you are a fan of the band you might not notice my complaints as you have lready heard the first 13 records which sounded no different.
Here we go further into the countdown of the top 50 black metal albums of all time. Before I sat down at my computer I confessed to someone that I do not know why I continue to subjecting myself to the work that goes into making these lists. You my faithful reader seem to like them as the numbers don't lie so in honor of Black Metal History month I will press on. Obviously when ranking these I am looking for what I have listened to the most. Many of these I owned long before I had a Last Fm page to help track what I listened to and going with my gut. Best is not the fastest. Best is not even the most satanic though that gets these bands more points than just relying on speed. What has stood the test of time and I continue to return to are the most important qualifications. So here we go...
40-Inquisition- "Ominous Doctrines of the Perpetual Mystical Macrocosm"
My rule is when in doubt go with the album that got you into the band in the first place.Aside from the weird production choices on this album this rule stands pretty solid with these guys. It also is yet another black metal album from 2010. This album they kept the SATAN up front, they come across as an evil version of Immortal. Granted with the production on this album they are not as big and thundering as Immortal or as big and thundering as the albums that follow, but there is just something about these songs that earns it this spot.
39-Wolves in the Throne Room - "Black Cascade"
Here is another one where I have to go with my gut. The more organic guitar sound of this album, elevates it above the others. These guys have been known to get distracted by the atmosphere and wander away from their camp fire. There is atmosphere to this album and I think it occurs in the most natural way possible.
38-Ulver-Nattens Madrigal -
Ulver might not be a black metal band now, but they once were. I prefer their mid-period where the two sides of the band were balanced, they also have many albums from this era where half the album is instrumental so picking what is best can be tricky, so with these guys there are a couple of album's I might have listened to more, but this is the black metal album I have listened to the most. For black metal the guitar solos on this one prove solos can work on a black metal album.
37- Blut Aus Nord- "the Work Which Transforms God"
These guys are similar to Ulver in the fact that they might have album's I am listened to more, but those album's are not black metal. So the rule is just because a band starts off as black metal doesn't grandfather later albums in by default. I think as far as their black metal albums goes this one is the best because it is so dark it borders on being depressive suicidal black metal. Their tendencies towards atmospheric experimentation are still firmly intact for this 2003 album and they set the bar for French black to follow them.
36- Hail Spirit Noir-" Oi magoi"
This Greek band takes a progressive approach to bringing their brand of darkness. The execution is flawless and they refuse to play by the rules.They do have the occasional blast beat, but sound like they are just as influenced by Deep Purple as they are Darkthrone. There are sections where it feels like they are wandering off into a jam, which is something you never hear in black metal.For a genre that is all about freedom and being a non-conformist, black metal all too often adhere to closely to playing in the confinements of being true rather than taking risks and this album celebrates the risks they take.
35- Lifelover-"Sjukdom"
The band broke up after this album was released due to the overdose of their guitarist. They were not always black metal in the strictest sense by the time this album rolled around. I think the mood and the other influences brought to the table expanded what black metal could be. Like most of the depressive black metal, the emphasis is on an emotional heaviness. Sometimes this translates over into a metallic heaviness. Not burdened by an overabundance of blast beats, they sometimes veer into a more black n roll realm. I think this is a fitting picture of their full realized musical vision.
34-Twilight- "Monument to Time End"
This supergroup made an astounding album of forward thinking black metal, when they tried to mess with the formula and bring Thurston Moore from Sonic Youth into the fold, things went sour. But this album is a monument before that time ended. The guitars on here bring a indie rock sensibility and layers of melody. It is an album that is as heavy sonically as it is metal.
33 Arckanum-"Helvítismyrkr"
One of the amazing things about this album is it was created by one person. While this is less uncommon in black metal due to the misanthropic nature of the artists who play it, this album feels very organic like it is four guys jamming in a room. The drums are just as well played as the guitar parts to there is not the uneven feel of programmed drums that sound too thin for black metal. This doesn't follow the blue print of most Swedish black metal and owes little to Dissection.
This 2011 album is so epic even the band themselves could not touch it when they tried to follow it up five years later. While it could also be on the top 50 pagan or viking metal albums list...if I ever get around to doing it or am even able to think of 50 albums worth a damn from those sub-genres. This album is dark enough to earn it's place here. Epic has become an overused term when it comes to metal, but if I had to pick one album on this list to use it for it describes the cinematic quality of what is going on here. Often the vocals are the most black metal element on the battle field, but I think this incredible album pushes the boundaries of what black metal can be. The folk elements are very well done and add to the over all sound rather than being a Middle Earthen distraction.
31-Marduk- "Plague Angel"
When mentioning bands from the second wave of black metal these guys are in the big 4 along side Darkthrone, Mayhem, Emperor and Burzum. Sure they might have albums that are more cvlt, but the songs are what matter and here they come off of some of the more spastic bursts of aggression to throb with a darkness that carries a more convincing feeling.A little more of an intimate feel to this album than what would happen on "Wormwood" and everything that follows.
The black metal albums that stuck with me this year found the way to my heart was through diversity. The whole thing with Blast beats for the sake of blast beats have grown stale. The bands that took the conventional trappings of black metal and made them their own, Beating out the hipster punks who made cassette pressings of them blasting into a four track in fits of angry irony. While the icy lands of Norway, Iceland and Sweden are accounted for so is America, France, Portugal, Italy, and Iceland, so grab a bic and get ready to torch some churches cus here we go....
10- Gorgoroth: "Instinctus Bestialis"
Here is an album that I want to go back and give more time to as with every repeat listen it grew on me. Infernus might be only the original member, but he carries the vision of their sound.I could really careless that Pest got kicked out of the band as I feel Ghaal's moment with the band can not be touched. Just a case of the right people together at the right time. In some ways this might be the most mainstream Gorgoroth album yet, that is not to say they turned into Behemoth, it is more of a testament to how finely honed of a metal machine this band has become.They are not just dialing it in and the music carries enough blasphemous hatred to appease most of their older fans who are willing to move past the Ghaal days and Pest days for that matter.
9-Absconditus-'Kατάβασις"
A couple years back France was still pumping out a ton of killer black metal all with their own unique finger print, the trend this year seemed to be a bunch of Deathspell Omega worship. While these guys might pull from a similar dissonant and angular darkness as Deathspell they are not jumping on the bandwagon. Certain songs take multiple listens to fully ingest what is happening. They hit you with crunching angular wreckage mixed with more traditional back metal pacing. The vocals carry a low inhuman to serve as the perfect narration to the collection of hellish sounds gathered here. They are not afraid of not being in with the cool kids for playing unapologetic metal while many black metal bands this year seemed more like punk kids tremolo picking.
8-Abhor-"Rituale Stramonium"
This band draws ample influence from the first wave of black metal bands and hits the same sweet spot for me that Mortuary Drape does. They are able to conjure all the darkness black metal should without being reliant on blast beats. The horror movie elements pile on the creepiness almost to the point of making this album at times sound more like doom than what we think of black metal post 1996.At times there is more of a Darkthrone black n roll roar, but overall they build a sinister atmosphere without losing sight of their invocations by dipping into any minimalist post-rock boredom.
7-Dead to a Dying World : " Litany"
When this band is full blast mode they might be Cascadian black metal, but they pulls from a wide array of sonic colors. Sometimes they are more folk metal, just without having to sound like an a drinking song from Middle Earth. Violin has as much place in the songs as blast beats, and sometimes perhaps more. Their music is dark and chilly like an overcast dusk hovering over a forest. Their drummer might be killing it to the max through out, but this doesn't diminish their collective efforts which have talent dripping from every direction. The band might list themselves on their Facebook page as being blackened apocalyptic doom, but this only goes to prove you can not believe anything you read on Facebook, as it emotes from a place of yearning and transcendence instead of mourning.
6-Misþyrming: "Söngvar elds og óreiðu"
It makes perfect that Fallen Empire is working with this album as it has the cavernous moodiness their bands are known for , but this Icelandic metal machine also throws everything they have at you with hellish intensity.These guys nail the unholy grail of being just as heavy sonically as they are metal, though they do churn out some of the things you expect from black metal, even manage to make many of these conventions sound even darker. I can see from a production stand point how some one might mistake this for death metal since it is so bellowing , but more introspective in its aggression and offering different shades of dissonance to paint the blackness with.
5- Marduk: "Frostschwein"
Of all the second wave black metal bands, Marduk has always felt like the Ac/Dc or Motorhead of black metal. Both bands are finely tuned juggernauts that have mastered the straight up in your face approach to rocking. With both Ac/Dc and Motorhead, their are certain era's of their work I prefer over the other say the Bon Scott years or with Motorhead my cut off point is "Orgasmatron". With Marduk I'm open to most of their discography. Here they continue polishing their raw and to the point style of black metal. What they do best is very much intact. There are plenty of blast beat ridden moment and they allow for the occasional gallop even dabbling with the tried and true formula, like their doomy trudge on "503" that really pays off for them. Even after all this time, these old dogs adapt to several new tricks without selling out and still allow themselves to grow.
4-Crowhurst : Self Titled
They allow dissonance to sweep through their songs, with vocals that are rabidly feral. When the blasts do come they do not runaway with the song, but are only one color in a vast canvas they paint their sound upon. When they go into "Judgement" they slow things down and are able to set aside the metal distortion until it's needed in order to serve the song. Layers of sonic tension build allowing the band to make the most of the moments they are allowed to indulge in creative choices that they set themselves apart from the pack. Sometimes they push these experiments to extremes however the songs that are actually songs and not just noise driven sonic experiments are close enough to perfect for me.
3-Nevoa -"The Absence of Void"
Portugal has been pumping out the metal this year. This album is surprising due to it's clean production.The guitar tones are very crisp and the mix leaves room to actually hear the bass , which is rare for black metal. One thing that is impressive with these guys is even when they fly into the blast beats everything retains a clarity and doesn't turn into a bunch of pots and pans are falling out of a closet. They are atmospheric without losing all form and function. They touch on a chilling drone that doesn't just become white noise and numb you out. Due to the Scandinavian roots of black metal bands they tend to get referred to as having a coldness, despite the geographical difference there is a similar starkness to the riffs that are more emotionally cold than musical translation of the physical nature of the cold lifestyle that haunts other black metal. More than likely the best black metal album you didn't hear this year.
2- Dodsferd : "Wastes of Life"
This album is the kind of thing you might want to blare at some one you hate if you have them tied up in a dark room. Full of stellar guitar work that seldom graces black metal, come on admit it when was the last time you thought about shredders in black metal. When the actual metal kicks in they don't jump to a blast beat and churn on something that has more of a old Shining feel...the Swedish band not the spastic band from Norway. Speaking of location, location, location this Greek band has not aspirations to be Rotting Christ. They drone on with this one milking the mood for every drop of it's dark blood.
1-Nechochwen : " Heart of Akamon"
West Virginia is an unlikely breeding ground for this kind of music. Roughly black metal in some sense, it is highly progressive in the same manner as old Agalloch. The clean vocals are stronger and they layer clean sounds and the more metallic grim ones through a different lens than the Portland band. In some ways these sounds are blended much like their label mate Panopticon. The clean tones are very organic and often allowed to stand along. The blast pretty furiously into "Lost on the Trail of the Setting Sun". The drums are masterful insanity in motion. The footwork pretty breathtaking even in a genre where it is expected. The vocals are well layered and punchy. While they work in many twists and turns over the course of a song they do not exceed the seven minute mark. They are also good at not placing the clean vocals in the obvious Killswitch places to make it the good cop/ bad cop dynamic.
Some of these get mentioned all the time , so much until the point you begin to wonder if the bands are just citing them because that is what is expected of them. One of these "typical" answers to the "Who are your influences question rank lower than expected. One of the interesting side notes of this is how big of an influence death metal was on black metal, despite often hearing in interview that the second wave of black metal, you know the church burning kind, made the music they did in retaliation of death metal. So I scoured the inner webs for the influences of ten second wave bands, so any band influenced by one of these bands I researched would be too new to count , after these second wave bands have gone on to influence black metal as we know it today .
The bands these influences are compiled from are Mayhem, Burzum, Marduk, Dark Throne, Emperor, Taake, Immortal, Ulver, Enslaved, Dissection
and the results are...
10-Death-
Varg always said he hated the bands that wore cammo shorts, but these guys surprisingly got mentioned more than Sodom and Possessed.
9-Von-
Well Watain took their name from them, but they aren't the only one that cited this lo-fi blasting beat death metal band that is now almost black metal by association.
8 -Kreator
This is not surprising as you can here their influence vocally on the black metal rasp taken on by Taake and Enslaved.
7-Destruction
Liked them when I heard them but this german band is the one band this list whose albums I have never owned.
6-Morbid Angel
"Altars of Madness" got cited a lot. It's dark and awesome, so this makes sense.
5-Slayer
I got the idea to make this list this am , because I woke up thinking about the "Hell Awaits" album. Yes, I wake up thinking about "Hell Awaits " that's how metal I am. Enslaved also wakes up thinking abut Slayer.
4-Venom
This is the band I though more would cite, of course the obvious ones like Darkthrone did.
3-Mercyful Fate
Of Emperor can not hide this fact. Darkthrone also have them a few shout outs over the years.
2- Bathory
The first of the viking metal. I think it is interesting Bathory also cites Mercyful Fate as an influence, but since more bands said Bathory than Fate, this is where it falls.
1- Celtic Frost-
This is interesting as they are one of the slower bands on this list, maybe second to Mercyful Fate. I suppose it might not be their most black metal moment below, though they are wearing make-up
Of all the second wave black metal bands, Marduk feels like the Ac/Dc or Motorhead of black metal. Like those bands they are finely tuned juggernauts that have mastered the straight up in your face approach to rocking. With both Ac/Dc and Motorhead, their are certain era's of their work I prefer over the other say the Bon Scott years or with Motorhead my cut off point is "Orgasmatron". With Marduk I'm open to most of their discography. Their newest album "Frostschwein" finds them to continue polishing their raw and to the point style of black metal.
Right from the title track that opens the album they blast at you, the only change is they have a slightly creepier dissonance to the chords. They don't slow down to find a groove until "Wartheland". This album features the new drummer, youngster Fredrik Widigs. Widigs fills the throne nicely. In fact I almost did not notice the change. It is hard to tell if he plays with more precision than past drummers or if this is the benefit of crisper production. The production might be a point of contention for those who only want the "Cvlt" sound. It's 2015 get over it.
They seem to have a matured their appreciation of letting some of the chord throb awhile and soak in melody rather than just tremolo pick a hundred percent of the time. On a song like "Between the Wolf packs " this gives it a thrashier feel. They always seem to find their way back to the blast beat, but wedge them in-between some rather hooky riffs. The vocals are more enunciated, making the lyrics almost discernible in the storm that roars around them.
The more militant stiffness they sometimes employ is put to good use on "Nebelwerfer". There is actually a smidgen of atmosphere in the guitar melody that floats around the march at times in the song. It comes and goes as the song takes on a drone of it's own. This is not to say Marduk has become Watain. What they do best is very much intact. The blast beat ridden song that follows is all the proof you will need. They do allow for the occasional gallop to accent what might be seen as a chorus.On the other hand the moments they do dabble with the tried and true formula, like the doomy trudge of "503" really pays off for them.
The icy cold that comes with the territory freezes to the bone . The tension to "Doomsday Elite" is especially chilling. They prove Marduk can hit the sonic sweet spot black metal captures so well, with just as much ice in their veins as any of country men. They close out the album with even more crazed fury than they began it with. The frantic blast of "Thousand Fold Death" rushes past you, before you can attempt to figure out what just happened. The vocals are squawked out in a spit fire manner that stays on top of the snare. I'll round this one up to a 9.5, and see how it grows on me.
The second album from this Swedish band who boasts having the bassist of Marduk in it's ranks. They were once called Devils Whorehouse before changing their name , so from that alone there's is going to be a Misfits influence but I'd say this more often metal than not though, they do use the very straightforward version of what a suppose it a punk take on the blast beat.
The production has an odd density to, like the producer had been listening to Nails a lot , not to say it has that sort of crunch but if you told me Kurt Ballou produced this it would make sense. In some ways this comes across like a black n roll take on Life of Agony's "the River Runs Red " album as we ave goth and hardcore ,iced together though it's no the first marriage of this sort.
There is an eighties metal punk crossover element that at times brings something like D.R.I to mind, and then at others the Danzig solo years on the interlude "Luciferian Blood Covenant. The title track is certainly the main culprit in the crossover department, bordering on being flat put punk but these are metal heads trying to play punk rather than the other way around. Not as effective as Slayer's Undisputed Attitude where they flat out covered punk songs, though haven't been able to convincingly metal them selves afterward. I think "Death Wolf March" strikes a better balance. At six minutes the a heftier song than the punk bursts, it gives more breathing room to create an almost doomy feel. Though midway I found my self looking at the iPod thinking o.k they have another three minutes left what are they going to do to switch it up.
There is little more of a fifties swing to "My Little Black angel" but at the same time there's still a vikingnmetal metal under current. The vocals stay rough where I think the song could have benefitted from more finesse. The fact the solo thing in here I can't tell if it's a guitar or a synth earns them some points, though it probably a guitar with effects on it.
The punk side returns with "Malice Striker" though there are doomy metal components to it and the clean vocals while Danzig is some sense also have thatmid range King Diamond croon to them, though if any prying I would say these guys are more likely to have a Merciful Fate influence than the Kng solo, though comes across like In Soltitude. By the refrain I'm almost sure it's a merciful fate influence.
The more Danzig like power ballad "Lord of Putrefaction" goes bad cop on what I suppose is the chorus. These are the first real horro punk moments I have come across though I suppose it sussposedto be large component of what they do. The vocals finallypop out of the mix more on the bridge. They are a,it'll dry and could use some verb.
We waffle back into punk with "World Serpent" which has more of a Slayer feel to it in how the vocals are spat back at you. The execution on it is rather bland. I think on the doomed pace like "Rothenburg" is a tempo they are more comfortable with surprising considering some of their black metal roots, but you know some sounds just come across better at certain tempos than others. I think in the songwriting department more variation and dynamic within the songs would be a better move for the as I find my self getting bored midway through. The point is often belabored, shorter verses more dynamic chrouses and varied bridges...ya know the basics are things they could be fit from, with something like Marduk who can become dynamically flat I can see where this skill set was not developed.
The eighties makes a appearance with some post NWOBHM on "Darkness of Hel" that has the Diamond Head of Maiden gallop to it. The Viking blood boils here, it can't be hidden by a devil lock.The bass player wakes up and I wonder what has he been doing all album, the vocals take on more of a rasp. I think if they could blend this rather than the punk thing with the death punk vibe they would be onto something.
I finally figure out by the time we get to "Night Stalker" that the gruffness of the vocals reminds me of Primordial. This of to Richard Rameriez, comes of a little forced, the line "beating the drum for funerals to come" is well awkward. We continue on the repetitive path not the left hand me more often than not here.
Then the final nail I the coffin is "Sudden Blooletter" where I can see the sacrafice that needs to be made is this album from my iPod to make room for the other stuff I need to get to this week. I'll give this album a 6.5, there are some cool dark moods captured, if you like harder metal but find your self with a Danzig fixation give this at least another point and hunt it down. Its more often than not just not my thing, the spooky crooning I like and some of the more down trodden Life of Agony moments but all in all I don't have to have this though you might.
